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Red Racing Horses analyzes and discusses elections from a Republican-leaning perspective. Thank you for visiting, and we hope you'll enjoy the blog. Please read our site Terms of Use.

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Inauguration Weekend Policy Thread: Guns

by: shamlet

Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 15:00:00 PM EST


Since this is probably going to be a big issue going forward and there isn't much immediate news, let's do a policy thread on gun laws:

Do you think any additional gun laws are needed? Would you like to repeal any existing gun laws? How would you get your package (if you think one is necessary) through Congress and Obama?

Please remember that civility is mandatory.

shamlet :: Inauguration Weekend Policy Thread: Guns
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Background checks
Background checks should be required to buy at gun shows or over the internet. That's about the only additional gun law that I think could really make a difference. I would attempt to get it through Congress by presenting it as a stand-alone measure, because I think it's so widely popular and intuitive that it would pass on its own. Obama would obviously sign it.

Democrat, NC-11

A better way
of putting it would be that every single gun sale, wether person to person or company/store to person should require a background check.

I would also require anyone using Guns to be licensed and to have to renew that license on a regular basis, maybe tie it into the Drivers License like Organ Donation is.

These are the 2 main things I would focus on as the Assault Weapons Ban has zero chance of passing.

33/M/D/NY-01 DKE:Socks The Cat


[ Parent ]
Background checks and ammo control.
Bring a bill to the floor with two items:
-Universal background checks and
-Limiting ammunition clips to 10 rounds.

It is simple, and does not actually ban a single gun.
While I would like an assault weapons ban, that just won't happen with the current Congress.

I would also include money in the legislation for school resource officers in keeping with the NRA request. Make them come out against their own proposal.

I feel like the above proposal would have a slight, but possible chance of passing.

Mainstream Dem.  


[ Parent ]
Ammo clips
Strongly strongly disagree. It's completely arbitrary and limits the law-abiding citizen's ability to defend himself from criminals.

[ Parent ]
mostly this
I would agree with the 'private sale' loophole. Assault weapons ban is nonsensical because the definition of assault weapon is itself nonsense.

27, R, PA-07.

[ Parent ]
Don't get me started
Repeal the "sporting purposes" clause. The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with "sporting purposes."

Disband the BATFE.

Allow purchases out of state without requiring an FFL in "purchase" state to transfer to FFL in "home" state.  

MI-08 - Chairman - Livingston County Republican Party Since 2013 - Opinions are my own and not that of LCRP.  


No
No New Gun Laws Until Dems pass laws to protect life of unborn.  Then we see what true hypocrites they are.

Almost All Crimes Are Committed with Stolen Firearms
This would never happen, because there are people who don't like the idea someone could shut off their weapons, but its perfectly possible to install the same sort of electronic systems in firearms at minimal(50$) cost we do in phones which require a signal in order to function, the same way a phone that is IMEI blocked cannot be used. If people report the gun stolen it can then be tagged and tracked, and set to jam.

If people don't trust the government the system can be run by gun manufacturers and the theft can be reported to them. This would have the consequence of protecting legal gun owners, and helping to ensure that stolen firearms could be tracked and prevented from being utilized in crimes.

27 NH-01/London/MA-07

Centrist Foreign Policy Realist - Tory in the UK, RINO locally


no new laws needed
criminals wouldn't obey gun laws any more than they do others.

42 Male Republican, Maryland Heights, MO (MO-2). Previously lived in both Memphis and Nashville.

Guns
I have a problem even talking about the regulation of firearms beyond prohibiting felons, the severely mentally ill, and those subject to PFAs from having firearms.  Many rural areas of Pennsylvania have substantially higher rates of gun ownership than violent urban areas while having little to no violent crime.  Gun availability and access clearly aren't the problem or much of rural Pennsylvania would be like Somalia.

The areas with violence problems don't have too many guns, but a complete lack of civil society.  The failure of these areas to have civil society should not be used as a justification to undermine the rights of others.

28, Republican, PA-6


I typically label myself as in favor of "reasonably robust" gun control
Seriously, that's the phrasing I've used. But perhaps it's not entirely accurate. I think any mentally fit non-felon should have the right to own a gun. I really don't care. What we need to do, to put it in blunt terms, is make it as difficult as possible for loons and criminals to get their hands on them. I'm not convinced the Assault Weapons Ban is the right medicine, given a) the bad guys will still figure out a way to get stolen guns and b) it'll burden the hunter who's played by the rules for decades and just loves hunting pheasant. I am for tough background checks, even if it inconveniences law-abiding, mentally capable citizens for a little bit. And I think prohibiting persons who live in the same home as a felon or mentally unfit individual from owning a gun might not be too out there.

For what it's worth, in my office for the past week (maybe even more, at this point) we've been bombarded by phone calls and letters on gun control, in regard to Feinstein, Obama and Patrick. I'd say by a 3 to 1 margin, the letters have been vehemently opposed to additional gun restrictions. In Massachusetts.

24, MA-07, Rockefeller Republican. Visit me at http://twitter.com/polibeast


Phone calls measure intensiity.
Polls measure support.  

[ Parent ]
Yeah
Its why the NRA is so powerful a lobby.  Even when they don't have the poll numbers, they have the more motivated base that actually votes their issues.

23, Libertarian Republican CA-18
Liberals dream things that never were and ask why not.  Conservatives shout back "Because it won't work"


[ Parent ]
Intensity
This issue has repeatedly shown itself to be an issue where intensity matters more than public support.  

The fact no Democrats in anything less than a D+10 district will touch this issue should tell you all you need to know how they perceive public opinion.

28, Republican, PA-6


[ Parent ]
My idea on guns
I generally consider myself moderate to slightly pro-gun on this issue, so here's what I'd do if I were in congress.

Ignore the assault weapons ban. It's as clear of a red herring as they get. I'd give the pro-control side the large magazine ban and stronger background checks - but tie it to CCW reciprocity. This way you take two priorities that alone would never get through and tie them together into something that could get a winning coalition.

R - MD-7


Problem with magazines
You're potentially creating millions of felons. Generally the standard magazine for many full size pistols are 15 rounds. Outside of your concealed carry only firearms and standard 1911s, maybe a majority of pistol mags would be illegal.

As for "stronger background checks", the only way that can work is if all private sellers can access NICS. All dealers are required to perform background checks anyway, and that includes gun shows.

The push is against private sales and all that would do is create another "prohibition" like the war on some drugs.  

MI-08 - Chairman - Livingston County Republican Party Since 2013 - Opinions are my own and not that of LCRP.  


[ Parent ]
The other part of magazine sizes
Is that its one of the less effective ideas for minimizing potential rampage deaths.  I'd bet that the Aurora shooter could have done more damage with 8 shots from a pump shotgun than with a 100-round AR magazine.  And anyone adequately familiar with guns should be able to reload within 5 seconds or so.

Its also one of the less effective in terms of enforceability.  Magazines, unlike guns, are pretty easy to make in a garage since they're essentially a can of metal with springs in it.

23, Libertarian Republican CA-18
Liberals dream things that never were and ask why not.  Conservatives shout back "Because it won't work"


[ Parent ]
CCW Reciprocity is a huge 10th Amendment/States Rights Issue
Since it basically sets gun control policies to the lowest common denomination locality within the country.  

27 NH-01/London/MA-07

Centrist Foreign Policy Realist - Tory in the UK, RINO locally


[ Parent ]
Non CPL reciprocity also creates a lot of felonies.
While there are some reciprocity agreements with states recognizing another's CPL/CCW license, a bad technicality can also create a felony, often a mandatory 2 year term.

If I'm driving to say Wisconsin, I'm committing a felony if I bring my firearm with me unless I go around the UP. Indiana and Wisconsin recognize my Michigan CPL. Illinois would probably prosecute me if I drive through Chicago even with my pistol cased and in the back of my evil assault SUV unloaded (I don't have a trunk or locked container there).

Driving to say Maine could be a problem because of driving through New York. Or Virginia through Maryland. I'd have to check the state laws for specifics, but I have a real problem with putting good people in prison due to technicalities.



MI-08 - Chairman - Livingston County Republican Party Since 2013 - Opinions are my own and not that of LCRP.  


[ Parent ]
Yeah
The thing about my coupling is that it tackles two issues that each side dreams about but most likely can never get through. I don't like the idea of a ban on large magazines but a lot of people on the pro-GC side really do... and I'd trade them that to get CCW reciprocity to avoid these accidental felonies. I also think at least some on the left of this issue would be OK with swallowing relaxed CCW in exchange for banning large magazines.

R - MD-7

[ Parent ]
Not true
If you are just driving through the state and do not stay overnight, you are not committing a felony. If you travel between two states where your permit is recognized and you do not stop for more than 30 minutes in a state where your permit is not recognized, you cannot be charged with a crime.

[ Parent ]
So the police just stop you for 31 minutes


42 Male Republican, Maryland Heights, MO (MO-2). Previously lived in both Memphis and Nashville.

[ Parent ]
The rule isn't 30 minutes
It's overnight with no "unreasonable" stops. It's not defined. I personally limited myself to 30 minutes to be safe.  

[ Parent ]
Furthermore
We have a constitutional right not to endure unreasonable search and seizure.  

[ Parent ]
Drivers licenses
function the same way. And there are some people that make that argument that are perfectly OK with relaxing drivers' license criteria.

R - MD-7

[ Parent ]
Federal sales tax on all gun sales & ammo
Just throwing this out as an idea because I'm actually surprised no one has proposed a taxes on guns. But just like alcohol & cigarettes why not have a national sales tax on guns and ammo. Making them more expensive through taxation could reduce the amount of guns in circulation and people who buy & sell guns illegally can be prosecuted as tax frauds. I've never heard on anyone on either side of the gun control debate talk about taxing guns. Is it an idea that could gain traction?

We already an 11% tax on ammo
The current tax isn't controversial as it is related to funding conservation programs and was implemented in a different era of firearms politics which was more about sportsmen instead of defense.

I've heard talk about it and a punitive tax is about as popular as a ban on handguns.  

MI-08 - Chairman - Livingston County Republican Party Since 2013 - Opinions are my own and not that of LCRP.  


[ Parent ]
NY Dems alleged laundry list on guns
http://www.thecommentator.com/...

1. Confiscation of "assault weapons"
2. Confiscation of ten round clips
3. Statewide database for ALL Guns
4. Continue to allow pistol permit holder's information to be replaced to the public
5. Label semiautomatic shotguns with more than 5 rounds or pistol grips as "assault weapons"
6. Limit the number of rounds in a magazine to 5 and confiscation and forfeiture of banned magazines
7. Limit possession to no more than two (2) magazines
8. Limit purchase of guns to one gun per person per month
9. Require re-licensing of all pistol permit owners
10. Require renewal of all pistol permits every five years
11. State issued pistol permits
12. Micro-stamping of all guns in New York State
13. Require licensing of all gun ammo dealers
14. Mandatory locking of guns at home
15. Fee for licensing, registering weapons

Heap of salt of course. The way I see it, there are probably more single issue pro-gun voters than anti-gun voters, so even if the polls are 50-50, the electoral impact is probably lopsided. Gay marriage seems to have gone in the other direction.

27, R, PA-07.


Interesting
I am curious how they plan to accomplish many of these without the deployment of the National Guard with assault rifles.

The Canadian experience with 3 will bankrupt the state as well.


28, Republican, PA-6


[ Parent ]
clearly unpopular both nationally and on this site
but I'd repeal the 2nd Amendment and, outside of private homes/property, ban guns from everyone except people whose professions require it.  For hunters, allow guns to be rented for the day, but require them to be returned overnight.

Age 21, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (college)
politicohen.com.
Idiosyncratic, pro-establishment. Liberal but not progressive.  For the poor, the children, the planet, and the rule of law.

Berkeley Class of 2015.


I'll give credit for honesty
At least you'll say that you'd repeal the 2nd.

Here's my question. What would you do with the 200 million guns already in circulation? What would you do with the hundreds of thousands, if not millions who would defy a ban or report their guns "stolen?"

We're making felons out of too many people already.  

MI-08 - Chairman - Livingston County Republican Party Since 2013 - Opinions are my own and not that of LCRP.  


[ Parent ]
"self-deport"
Lol

26, Male, R, NY-10

[ Parent ]
I wouldn't make them all illegal at once
You'd have to say the law goes into effect in something like six months or one year from when it is passed, and then give people the choice of gun buybacks.  Many people will prefer to keep their guns in their home for self defense in which case it will be irrelevant, but otherwise do something like the Cash for Clunkers but with guns, financed by a tax on guns that only lasts for a year or two and then expires.

Those who defy a ban would be fined rather than go to jail, at least initially.  More like a traffic ticket than anything.  For repeat offenders that would be different.

Of course this wouldn't happen in a million years, but if I were dictator this is how it would work.

Age 21, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (college)
politicohen.com.
Idiosyncratic, pro-establishment. Liberal but not progressive.  For the poor, the children, the planet, and the rule of law.

Berkeley Class of 2015.


[ Parent ]
That'll give you time to build new prisons
Many gun owners will never give up their guns. So 2-3 years down the road you'll have new prisons built to house all the gun owners who won't.

R, CA-37; hometown: PA-2

[ Parent ]
The "stolen" guns part is relatively easy.
Make an addendum to the law that if you report your gun stolen, then the police have the right to search your home and any properties you own for that gun and if it's found, you're charged with filing a false police report and billed for the time taken by the police to find the gun.  

[ Parent ]
I'll then see you in court
That doesn't even amount to reasonable suspicion let alone probable cause.

Besides, I wouldn't be dumb enough to hide it at my home.  

MI-08 - Chairman - Livingston County Republican Party Since 2013 - Opinions are my own and not that of LCRP.  


[ Parent ]
Theft
Do the police make a practice of searching the homes of people who report things stolen? Isn't that usually the one place these things aren't? I'm sure occasionally people commit fraud but I think we have other things for our cops to do than search victims' homes.

R, CA-37; hometown: PA-2

[ Parent ]
eh
If you're talking about repealing the 2nd amendment you can also stick in any necessary provisions to enforce this type of thing.

27, R, PA-07.

[ Parent ]
if it were at your home under my plan
that's legal, so no need to report it stolen.  That would be the case whether it's a rifle or a rocket launcher.

Age 21, CA-18 (home), CA-13 (college)
politicohen.com.
Idiosyncratic, pro-establishment. Liberal but not progressive.  For the poor, the children, the planet, and the rule of law.

Berkeley Class of 2015.


[ Parent ]
310 million
114 million handguns, 110 million rifles, and 86 million shotguns.

Democrat, NC-11

[ Parent ]
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